Relapse After Alcoholics Anonymous
This is probably going to attract a lot of criticism but it has been a while since I have really dared to put my neck on the line. This is merely personal advice and is by no means me saying, ‘You must do it this way, or else…’ I hope you are all well. Many thanks, B l A m E The link to the page mentioned at the end of the film: www.orange-papers.org
Tags: Alcoholics, Relapse, Anonymous, after
25 Responses to “Relapse After Alcoholics Anonymous”
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I’m a happy customer of AA, but I have no problem with this video. I tried most of the things suggested by blamethenile, but I failed miserably at all of them and it was only when I was forced into AA by the lash of my alcoholism did I find a solution. But I don’t doubt there are other solutions out there also. I don’t care how people get clean and sober, as long as they get clean and sober.
We need to remember there is no one answer. Too much variation in each situation. AA is free. It is a way to connect with others who share your dilemma. It works for me, I love the program and the friends I’ve made. I personally know 100 or more people who have recovered – I see them, talk to them. It’s a fact I can see. The principles suggested are good, logical ways to think and behave. It’s cool to surrender the fight, clean house and help others. Choose your own way, like you did w/your DOC
@tomhabs I’m not vindictive, but there is no middle ground. I read the report thoroughly early on. In 1949, Bill W. stated that 3 or 4 out of 5 who come to AA leave after a short time. Of the remaining 1 or 2, 50% remain sober. That yields, by Bill’s account, a 10 to 20% overall success rate. In January 2008 Art, Tom and Glen said exactly the same thing, although it took them 33 pages to say it. By my own research and observations, and others, I believe their numbers to be inflated. Mike
@tomhabs Sorry, I guess I had you confused with that guy who went ape on our homepage last week. At any rate, I don’t recall any namecalling directed your way. BlAme is a very nice guy, until you get on his nerves, so communicate away. Mike
@blamethenile I really don’t believe you have read the whole thing or you wouldn’t hold on to this stance obviously there is no middle ground with you it is either your way or no way at all. I agree maybe there figures are too much on the positive, but not nearly as biased as yours are. Come on Mike give a little and show everybody your not as vindicative as you come across.
@blamethenile No I’m not and it’s not something that I would even think of, I don’t know where you got that and I would never call anyone ignorant. i resent the implication that your making. I didn’t get into name calling with you and I never would. I obviously need to communicate with BlAme he seems a lot less defensive and a little more intelligent.
@tomhabs Actually, you were the one who implied that our vids kill drunks, and called us “ignorant” for not being reasonable, and agreeing with you. Mike
@tomhabs Like I said previously, I have already read that particular piece of work, at length, and find it to be no more than a re-hashed blaming of AA failures on “not really trying”. Sorry, but it does nothing to dispute the 5% annual retention rate for all those who attend AA. Mike
@tomhabs Hey Tom, it’s B l A m E here, how are you? I made this film but I do not understand what Mike has said wrong? (Mike helps me deal with all the comments for our videos.) If he has already read something, and has an opinion, what is the matter with that? AA can kill people by telling them they are ‘powerless’ so when they relapse some don’t bother trying to stop. Anyway I hope you stick around; we invite intelligent challenge. B l A m E
@blamethenile I thought we could have a intelligent back and forth on this topic, but when you starting using terms like “killing” you loose me. How can AA kill people? It may not help them, but killing them is a bit extreme. Gullibility umm don’t get that either and I don’t think it is me whose confused. You obvious have a lot of talent you should use it to help people not call them names because they disagree with you. And if you think your helping with the retoric your selling your wrong.
@blamethenile I have tried to send you the link, but for some reason it won’t take it you can try googling “Recovery outcome rates in AA”
@blamethenile I agree som do said that personally I went to one detox before I ended up in a rehab three years later for 6 months so no I didn’t try everything and maybe AA wasn’t what got and kept me sober, but it sure didn’t hurt. Mostly it gave me a way of life that I could deal with. Now I know I could have done that without AA, but the fact is I did it with AA, so that is where I have to give the credit.
@tomhabs You confuse open-mindedness with gullibility. When you bring new ideas to the table, we will be happy to look at them, but you just keep re-hashing the same ol’ tired rhetoric. Since you could care less about success rates, why do you even bother? You got yours, and if AA kills a couple dozen to find one keeper, so what, right? Mike
@blamethenile @blamethenile Here it is Mike it is very long, but I think it is much more accurate then the 5% that everybody has jumped on and no it really doesn’t matter to me whether it’s 5% or 95% it works for me. I’m just afraid someone new is going to read your stuff and decide not to give it a try. If your truly opened minded you will have to conced at least a little, if not it will be obvious it’s a vendetta. Tom
@tomhabs If you are talking about that lengthy revisionist piece of denial by Kurtz and co. which came out a couple years ago, don’t bother. I already read it. All it said was a twist on the “of those who really try, 50% succeed” line. Mike
@tomhabs I’m right here in the good old US of A, and I have heard countless testimonials with the “I tried everything, but nothing else worked until I came to AA” line. When you ask them what else they tried, it usually turns out to be nothing at all. Ask them specifically about the countless alternative approaches, and they will look at you like you just grew a third eye. Mike
@blamethenile Mike you are still using that 5% retention rate which is not true. I think I recently send you some facts that totally disprove this claim, if I didn’t let me know and I will resend, but I’ll need your email address because it won’t fit on here.
@blamethenile First of all Mike congratulations on 16 years that is quite an accomplishment. There is one thing that baffles me, I have been in for 22 years and I never heard that it was the only way, in fact just the opposite that it’s not for everyone. I do like what you said as to “if it works for you then no problem”, but the other statement I have never heard. Maybe it’s a British thing, I’m sure there are subtle differences across the pond.
@tzlmongo Thanks, Mike
@tzlmongo No, no active users or junkies here, Tomorrow is my 16th anniversary, drug and alcohol free. Stanton is still a go-to guy, tho. Mike
That said, good video.
Are you an active user? junkie? If so you are not the go to guy in the AA a crock of
shit or not a crock of shit debate? I’ll go to Stanton P. for that, the Edward Said of
your movement
@LordInksworth How is Mike bad news? Is that because according to you, and AA, AA is the only way, and that anyone daring to go against the grain must therefore be dangerous? I welcome people challenging us – there is not one solution; if AA works for you, I have no issue – my PRIMARY concern is for those for whom it has not worked. AA is mainly ‘bad’ in my eyes as it claims to be the only way. The fact we can’t work together is the real tragedy. B l A m E/J (not MIke) PS I made this film.
i agree yet disagree, remember the key concept of the principle of the fellowship is a spiritual way of life without resorting to vices, i have both experiance as a “sot’ as well as healthcare worker treating “the drunks” yes the program doesn’t work for all but i have seen the change for the better it brought people, i’m one who frequently relapse because i chose to not because the steps didn’t work. remember “the drink and the bottle are only symbols of the real problem… ourself”
your insincerity is appealing if i were still attending those insincere mtgs. Really bud. AA didn’t work for Bill even he knew. he was just trying sell a few books so he didn’t have to work anymore. Jeez. Evolve whadya got like 20-30yrs? really dude. you’re not going drink unless you choose to drink. Quit tryin to save AA its dying on the”grapevine.” News flash: Science prevails. Quack medicine fails. Stop the presses right? Go play with grand kids man. peace. u cans see pretty girl at the mall.